You'll Never See This Pair Together

How awesome would it be to see Superman and Batman in the same movie together?

Well guess what? Unless the franchise is taken out of Chris Nolan’s hands, it will never happen.

You see, that’s because in the “trying to be super-real” Nolan world of Batman, everything has to be believable as being possible within reality.  Now, if he had pulled that off as well as he did in “Batman Begins”, there would be little to complain about - but the reality is broken constantly in “The Dark Knight” while simultaneously trying to reinforce “this can be real”.  “This can be real… ignore the man behind the curtain…”

Either one has to let go of the whole “super-real comic adaptation” or make it a given that there are many fantastic things which can only exist within the world of comics – one of the greatest reasons comics have such great appeal.  You can’t ride the fence.  BB didn’t ride the fence, and it worked.  TDK rode the fence in ridiculous ways, and none of them because fantastic scenarios were presented, but because it was presented as realistic yet completely unrealistic things were utilized to move the story along.

Just step back and observe the tone of “Batman Begins” and compare it to “The Dark Knight” and given the background of how Gotham was presented in either one, how the story was played out, how the theme was established, think about which version of the Batman “reality” one could possibly see Superman showing up in.  Only in the world of “Batman Begins”, but now that possibility is gone.

So, if you ever hoped for such a team-up in a movie, and realize that will not be possible, you can only blame yourself for having gone to see TDK 2, 3, 4 or more times, shooting the box office for it up, and reaffirming to Warner Bros to keep Nolan on the ticket for the next one.  Pat yourself on the back.

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34 Responses to “You'll Never See This Pair Together”

  1. Thank God we won’t see “this pair together” and Nolan will continue to direct these movies that “feel” real and make the Batman universe as “real” as possible without interfering with entertainment… which TDK did well… because its not meant to entertain the few who don’t like it and will stop at nothing to nit-pick each scene as to why “it can’t happen”.

    Begins did seem more real, but the action wasn’t as intense, and there wasn’t as quite as big of a story where unnecessary things would have to be left out. The movies still match in a similar tone.(many people have even taken the time to you write logical arguments in your posts about “why it can’t happen”, just check out the first response to your little survey you posted for us to answer about the Joker’s “omnipresent”-ness). Of course, there might be little things here and there in the movie that cannot factually happen, but just because a few things can’t REALLY exactly work THAT way in some scenes doesn’t make the movie TOTALLY unrealistic! You hear that argument all the time but it is true…

    Also, no one likes Superman anyway! Haha… Look, regardless of whatever you felt was so “unrealistic” about TDK, it is no where NEAR the likes of a man from another planet who can pick up anything, fly and withstand any form of attack other then kryptonite….

  2. People love Superman, it’s just that the only good movies based on the character were the first two with Christopher Reeve. I like Batman as a character more than Superman, but still that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want to see a superb Superman movie (Superman Returns was terrible).

    It’s not about whether something is real or not real. It’s about whether it’s believable or not. It’s about the right balance of suspension of disbelief and what is presented on screen as being believable or not. The fact is, Nolan is bending over backwards to give us a “REAL” Batman but at the same time (in TDK) completely wrecking that whole effort with elements in the storyline that are complete horseshit.

    Somehow, he struck a near-perfect balance in “Batman Begins”. It worked, was a quality movie, and was extremely entertaining (not just thought-provoking). It did justice to the character.

    TDK completely flops in this regard. I could care less whether a movie is meant to be “real” or “half-real” or “total fantasy” – it’s not about that. It’s about how much the audience is set up to hold a certain suspension of disbelief and then completely wrecking that balance — not just once, but constantly throughout.

  3. TDKSucks:

    I like your site because though a good film, I am sick of all the overhype this movie gets and I’m glad there’s someone out there to point out why this movie isn’t a masterpiece and isn’t even really great.

    However, TDK is a far better movie than Batman Begins and I don’t understand why you think otherwise. Despite how unrealistic TDK is, nothing can compare to Batman-as-modern-day ninja. Are you kidding me? That was my biggest complaint about Begins: that it was supposed to set the standard for “realistic” comic book movies, but then I was supposed suspend my disbelief not only that Batman is a ninja, not only that he was trained by a group of modern day ninjas led by Liam Neeson, but that said group of ninjas are also fascists and intent on destroying modern civilization.

    Which is really neither here nor there, but I just think it’s ridiculous when you say Begins worked so well when anyone with half a brain saw that it was a crock of steaming dog shit.

    TDK is a better and even more “realistic” film than Begins.

    Also, for all the shortcomings of TDK, Heath Ledger isn’t one of them. His performance was quite qood, actually.

  4. So this article says that TDK sucks because it means we will never see superman and batman?

    Makes sense I guess, I’ve seen the light!

  5. That movie was scrapped anyway…next is Justice League! :O

    Anyway, people don’t know what good suspension is anymore. See a Hitchcock movie and you’ll find out. The Matrix had an easy answer when something fantastical and unrealistic happened, they were in a computer program. So, maybe Batman is stuck in the Matrix? O.o That could explain why Batman could see in crazy 3D sonar scope! Yeah! I figured it out! :D

  6. Nolan is the best thing to happen to Batman as far as movies are concerned. It’s because of him and his two Batman films, and possible third, that the next generation of Batman (15-20 yrs from now) will be given a fair viewing by audiences – and if anything, he made it easier for a Batman and Superman team up possible in the future. Chris Nolan pulled Batman out of the gutter that the studio and Schumacher crashed, burned, and left the franchise to rot in.

  7. I’m still wondering why your preaching about Batman Begin’s ultimate realism, when the entire climatic scene involved him connected to a monorail via grapple gun as it sped along the tracks, when in real life it would have attached and gotten ripped off as soon as it passed over the next support beam which are visibly in the way but they used camera tricks so nothing happened. Also how in the monorail he throws one of his little bombs behind him and it makes big enough of an explosion to tear the entire monorail apart, yet earlier when he used on on a door it made a simple small hole through the lock(in arkham). There are plenty of examples of unrealistic events that happened in Batman Begins, but you ignore them and act like The Dark Knight is the sole unrealistic movie out of the two. Also, Batman and superman may work ok in the comics, but I dont know why you think anyone would be looking forward to a batman and superman movie, they’re better kept seperate.

  8. Holy shit.
    You’ve spent this entire blog bitching about how The Dark Knight isn’t realistic enough, yet you want a Batman film that features an invincible alien who can fly, travel at the speed of light, stop a speeding train with his bare hands and who generally pisses allover the laws of Physics.

    Congratulations, you’ve just proven you’re nothing more than a troll and this blog is nothing more than a desperate “LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!! I’M DIFFERENT!!”

  9. Batman and Superman are radically different characters. Batman came out of a tradition of pulp fiction and detective stories, and Superman came out of a tradition of science fiction stories involving aliens.

  10. “You’ve spent this entire blog bitching about how The Dark Knight isn’t realistic enough,”

    Apparently you can’t read for content. Try again.

  11. Without even trying I’ve come across this following criticism:

    “The Harvey Dent transportation seen was ridiculous. How does an 18-wheeler NOT jack knife or have its tires ripped to shreds while changing lanes, crashing into cars, and hitting walls at high speeds?”

    That’s you complaining that a scene in The Dark Knight isn’t realistic enough, no?

    “How awesome would it be to see Superman and Batman in the same movie together?”

    That’s you saying you’d like to see a Batman film featuring an invincible, superhuman alien.

  12. uhhh….Johnny, tdksucks meant BECAUSE Nolan was striving for realism in his Batman movies, there is no way, if Nolan directs the future Batman’s, that Superman would have any part BECAUSE he’s an alien, with super strength, and faster than a speeding bullet. tdksucks, I assume, would like to see a movie with Superman and Batman together: “How awesome would it be to see Superman and Batman in the same movie together?” but because of Nolan, that wouldn’t be able to happen. So your argument…if there is one, doesn’t make much sense.

  13. Who wants to see Batman and Superman together. Sounds lame anyway.

  14. hafabat:

    Not sure why it wouldn’t make sense – I can picture a Superman character within the realm of “Batman Begins” but not in the realm of “The Dark Knight”.

    Anyway, it’s funny to now see fanboys do a 180 on a Superman + Batman possibility when pretty recently, loads of them were frothing at the mouth based soley on a fake poster in “I Am Legend” indicating a Superman + Batman movie.

    In Nolan’s world, Superman would be an orphan ex-wrestler who takes steroids who uses gliders to “fly” and brass knuckles to have punching strength, in order to fit “reality”, but then invents some farcical eyewear that lets him see through walls, and a nano-tech suit that makes bullets bounce off him.

  15. tdksucks, about your last point. I doubt Superman would be an “orphan ex-wrestler….” in Nolan’s world. These armouring and “farcical eyewear” in TDK are a part of the Batman mythos. At least we have reasonably plausible back-stories to how a non-superpowered super-hero functions.
    We can go on picking nits in the movie (as we can in any movie, no matter how great — and mark, I’m not saying TDK is the best thing to have happened to movies since the Lumiere Brothers) but at least we have moved out of camp. At least Nolan salvaged the Bat from Mr Schumacher, Mr West and Batman: The Animated Series. The movie franchise has a future now. It can always be re-interpreted, but at least those pansy Spideyfans can now take a look at a real human hero.
    ….or, wait a sec, you aren’t a Marvel guy, are you, me lad? ’cause if you are, boy, this means war….

  16. ok tdksucks, let me get this straight, in batman begins, the movie you claim is ultra realistic, you can see superman work in that universe?, the guy that wears no mask, yet his identity is never exposed when people are mere feet from his face, and basically just has “super-everything” including freeze breath and heat vision? Why would it make more sense for superman to work in that universe than in the dark knight, which by the way has the same tone and is in the same universe as batman begins?

  17. My god. This is pathetic. You’ve really shown now that you don’t have a clue what you’re doing.
    When you first opened this site, you actually had a good few arguments up, but now, in less than two weeks, you have completely lost it. You’ve run out of good arguments, so you are forced to come up with stupid ones like this, which is just proving that the film is indeed above “mediocre”. Let me get this straight: You honestly think SUPERMAN could exist in Batman Begins and not TDK? What the hell? Having Superman in Batman Begins is idiotic enough, but if you can picture him in BB and not TDK, then you really are just a desperate DC fanboy (And what’s all this rubbish about Idiocracy? That article was laughable! You can’t just count some one off as a “sheep” or an idiot if they like a movie).

  18. Benedict XVI:

    So wait… some people are claiming I’m a “spidey fan” (not sure where that comes from), and now I’m a “desperate DC fan”. I can’t keep track.

    BB begins had a true-to-comics Gotham. It had ninjas and Ra’s Al Gul. It had Wayne Manor. It had the Bat Cave. It had an atmosphere. It had batman with a dynamic range of gadgets. It had scarecrow and a plot for mass-poisoning citizens of Gotham. it had a more symbolic representation of what Batman should be (and has been). It had a first-class origin story. It was true to the comic. So, yes, I can more easily see Superman show up in THAT world than in TDK world.

  19. Ok so having ninjas and ras al ghul is more true to the comic than having The Joker and Two Face and Scarecrow? Batman has a wider range of gadgets in the dark knight, and a plot that involves the joker wrecking the city physically and morally in an attempt to break batman. The origin story was not true to the comic, batman did not train with ra’s al ghul before he became batman, and henri ducard is not just an alias of ras al ghul, henri ducard is a french man that trains bruce in france before he becomes batman. Alot of it was twisted up in batman begins.
    The only thing you have going for you in that entire paragraph is the fact that it had wayne manor and the batcave, although an extremely incomplete one consisting of lights and 2 tables and one bureau.
    And the way batman is portrayed in batman begins is extremely incomplete compared to the one in the dark knight.
    In the dark knight he is shown not only capable with his various gadgets and hand to hand combat skills, but also his detective skills, which were next to absent in batman begins.

  20. The Dark Knight is overrated, and maybe even worse than Halo. FUCK THIS FILM IT SUCKS MY DICK BATMAN IS GAY FUCK YOU COMIC NERDS

  21. firstly, sam, this is a site for thoughtful debate, not neanderthals who think that Halo is the same as TDK. Unless you can contribute something meaningful, go back to the pit from wherever you came from.

    Secondly, tdksucks, i just don’t see how your arguement makes sense. you somehow beleive that if TDK had been as realistic as BB, an alien who defies gravity, can throw semi trailers like a frisbee, and can freeze AND melt stuff could exist in the same universe as batman. BB was, if anything, less realistic than TDK (see numerous examples provdied above). no arguement that BB was an excellent film, but superman could not exist in either of those films. BB was rooted in the same “hyper realism” as TDK, which you seem hell bent on mocking.

  22. I love would love to see Superman and batman because they are my favorite the Problem is

    American children and people( some not all) are lazy and stuipd and need Comic book movie to be dumb down for them so they can understand it because they HATE imagination.

    After Christoper Reves made superman a gay sinner we need a better superman try and get Dean cain he by far the best superman.

    The Dark Knight is a Overrated movie and THE ONLY reason people went to see it is because Ledger Death and now they want NO one to play the Joker ever again Well I say this The Joker is the Joker Not Ledger.

  23. ^Thats funny Michael but very wrong, I swa it because I liked BB, because it looked good from the trailers, and because it had a soundtrack by Howard and Zimmer (My favorite movie composer).

    But thanks for completely generalizing everyone who liked this movie, shows a lot about your character.

  24. Not to mention he called Christopher Reeve’s superman a “gay sinner” whatever the heck that is.

  25. This is a red herring and has nothing to do with why the movie allegedly “sucks”. You can post whatever articles you want obviously, you can troll your own site as much as you want, but this is hardly fitting the criteria of a legitimate complaint.

  26. Do you honstly believe that this movie sucked, or just that it recieved more praising than necessary? While this film is not the greatest ever, it is easily better that 90 percent of movies released in the past ten years. I saw this movie before i read any reviews telling me it was god, and still enjoyed it immensely. I honestly feel bad that you missed out on it. I hope this site makes you feel a little more accomplished and complete as a person.

  27. Well put jp.

  28. TDK pushed things to a natural extreme and is full of plot holes that makes it many times worse than Batman Begins. Add that to the hype and the people slowly getting away from the haze of hype, and it would be exposed as the mediocre movie it really is.

    What’s funny is how these TDK fanboys swarm over a two month’s old site and try to bash it in a misled notion of stating their opinions as fact and being blinded by the hype still. Sad.

  29. ponqit96lu6j5ou1

  30. Joe: If you think Begins is a crock of steaming dog shit, then there isn’t hope left for you.

    Johnny: Congratulations. You have proven you’re nothing more than a half-brained person who can’t read. The author stated that he would forgive Nolan for excluding the possibility of using Superman IF the films were as realistic as Nolan wants them to be. But since Nolan wasn’t even able of accomplishing that, then that throws out of the window Nolan’s excuse to make the films so pseudo-realistic.

    Benedict XVI: Seems like your IQ is EVEN lower than Johnny. The author NEVER stated that Superman would work in Begins.

  31. I do feel that BB was better than TDK, but not by a lot. BB was very realistic, which I loved. TDK did have some anomalous incidents which tested credibility.
    For example: The bank robbery scene when the bus comes through the wall at the perfect moment. And then, it leaves the bank and fits perfectly into a line of child-filled busses. That bummed me out a bit.
    Also, Bruce Wayne constructing that sonar, spy device all by himself seemed a bit odd. If Fox had done it, I’d be okay.
    I do hear some people complain about Gordon’s ‘plan’ to fake his death. Many say thing like “How could he have coordinated getting shot by the Joker?” Well, he didn’t. I thought about this a lot and I feel that he DID get shot and didn’t plan that. BUT, took advantage of the situation to fake his own death from that point on.

    I also hear people complain about two-face. They say no one could survive with an injury like that. Correct. Which is why they killed him off. The only real issue for me was how his left eye was generally unharmed. It would have been cool for it to be paled over.

    But all in all, TDK was a great movie. So what if it pushed credibility. It happens all the time. Superman movies are ALL unbelievable(ly lame). I would NEVER want Superman in a movie with Batman because there is no need for superman to piggyback on Batman’s success. If Sup wants a good movie, go make a good movie, asshole

  32. I agree with tdksucks. What bothers me about this discussion is how a lot of the comments glibly gloss over the FACT that Nolan reneged on his initial vision for this franchise. Nolan’s vision was to give the public a depiction of the Batman character that is worthy of the character. Something that Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher did not do (some would disagree with Burton not doing this). Nolan’s vision was to do a Batman movie that wasn’t silly camp. I think Nolan accomplished this with the first film. I can’t believe that some of the commenters (who seem to be the diehard fanboys) are completely missing this point. A lot of you obviously haven’t done your homework. Never seeing Superman in a Batman movie is not tdksucks’ idea, this is something Nolan has said was not the objection of his Batman movies (he also said you’d never see the Penguin in one of his films).

    This is quote from Nolan from the LA Times in Oct., ‘08:

    “…Is this a world in which comic books already exist? Is this a world in which superheroes already exist? If you think of “Batman Begins” and you think of the philosophy of this character trying to reinvent himself as a symbol, we took the position — we didn’t address it directly in the film, but we did take the position philosophically — that superheroes simply don’t exist. If they did, if Bruce knew of Superman or even of comic books, then that’s a completely different decision that he’s making when he puts on a costume in an attempt to become a symbol. It’s a paradox and a conundrum, but what we did is go back to the very original concept and idea of the character. ..”

    If there are no superheroes in Nolan’s vision, then why did he choose to make the Joker a supervillian? Supervillians wouldn’t exist either. I don’t think Nolan gave this enough thought. Batman is actually the most un-superhero of the superheroes because he has no superpowers. He’s just a man. I feel this aspect alone is what Nolan should have thought more about. It’s a better idea to take a man without superpowers and put him in the real world because Batman is the most real of all the comic book heroes. Doing this is not a stretch.

    So face it, for whatever reason Nolan reneged on his original vision. All Nolan did with The Dark Knight was remove Tim Burton’s and Joel Schumacher’s art deco set pieces, as well as CGI. In its place, he made Gotham a real city, and wrangled up a critically acclaimed cast to provide a semblance of the realism he initially said he wanted in his films, as well as to try to camouflage a ridiculous plot. Very disappointing.

  33. @Debate is Irate

    “If there are no superheroes in Nolan’s vision, then why did he choose to make the Joker a supervillian?”

    Well, he didn’t. He wasn’t superpowered, he didn’t have flashy lairs or doomsday devices or plans for global domination. Just cheap weapons and explosives, willing helpers, and a taste for theatrics (like his nemesis). The Joker was portrayed (realistically) as a terrorist. which is alot less “supervillian-y” than, say, the leader of an ancient cult of ninjas who have infiltrated seemingly every level of society (sound familiar?)

    Nolan’s maintained his vision. TDK had the same (if not, higher) level of realism as BB. And it continued on from BB thematically. The idea of batman as a symbol was fairly extensively examined, as alot of the movie centered on Bruce struggling to live up to the symbol he created because, as you said, he’s just a man and not a superhero.

  34. Why would anyone with a functioning brain want a crossover superhero movie ? Most campy garbage. Say what you want about Nolan’s Batman films but a Superman/Batman crossover movie would feel like a saturday morning cartoon ala Batman and Robin.

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